March 18th, 2013 
James Shotwell 
One story that has captivated our staff and nation in recent months is the tale of a sixteen-year-old girl from Steubenville, Ohio who was raped by two high school football players last summer. Yesterday morning, an Ohio court found the two teens charged in the case, Trent Mays (17) and Ma’lik Richmond (16), guilty and sentenced them to at least one year in juvenile jail. They could be held until they are 21 years old. Mays was sentenced to an additional year for a charge related to distributing nude images of a minor. More details on that can be found here.
As you can probably imagine, the reaction to this conviction has been loud and divided, with many turning to their internet to vent. One of those people, punk legend Henry Rollins, posted a lengthy blog yesterday afternoon focusing on the verdict and what the case means on a much larger scale. You can read his words below.
03-17-13
For the last couple of hours, I have been thinking of the verdict that was reached in what is now known as the Steubenville rape case.
Since all involved are minors, I won’t use anyone’s name. Two juvenile males were found delinquent of the charges and will be, as far as I understand, incarcerated in a juvenile detention facility until they are twenty-one years of age.
There is, I guess, cell phone generated video content of parts of the crime. It went “viral” on the internet and brought attention to the events.
I got through a few minutes of it but was too disgusted to watch the rest.
The case, the verdict and the surrounding circumstances open up a huge conversation.
These are a few of the things that I have been thinking about.
After reading several posts online, I was not surprised at the vast range of sentiments expressed. Many of the postings were of outrage that the two found delinquent were not tried as adults so they would face much longer sentences. You might not know, but in some states, this sentence would be decades long. Many of the posts spoke of the damage done to the victim and the life she will have now. One person suggested caning the two young men. Many others were angered at the deification of high school football players and how they often receive special treatment. You can read this stuff all day if you want.
After reading posts for quite awhile, I thought first about the two young men. I wondered if the years in the facility will “help” them. What, exactly does one “learn” in one of these places? That is to say, after five years locked away, does the idea of assaulting a woman seem like the wrong thing to do, more than if you were incarcerated for one year? Would you be “more sorry” about what you did? Is that possible? Or, would you just be more sorry for yourself about where your actions landed you? At what point do you get “better”, how many years in one of these places does that take?
What made these young people think that that what they did was ok? What was in their upbringing, the information and morals instilled in them that allowed them to do what they did, minute after minute, laughing, joking, documenting it and then calling it a night and going home? Out of all the people who were witness to what happened, why wasn’t there someone putting a stop to it?
What I am attempting to get at, and I apologize if I am not being clear enough is that this is a failure on many levels. Parents, teachers, coaches, peers all come into play here. I am not trying to diffuse blame or lessen the awfulness of what happened but I want to address the complexity of the cause in an effort to assess the effect so it can be prevented.
Some might say that the two going to the youth facility are as much victims as the young women who was assaulted. I do not agree. The two are offenders. What they did was obviously wrong. That being said, we cannot end the discussion at that point and expect things to change.
I have yet to say anything about the damage done to the young woman involved. It is ironic and sad that the person who is going to do a life sentence is her.
As a testament to the horrific power of sexual assault, I encourage you to see, yet cannot recommend the documentary The Invisible War about sexual assault in the military. http://invisiblewarmovie.com/. The reason I say that I cannot recommend it is that it is so well done, so clear and devastating that it will put you through quite a wringer. I do hope you see it but damn, it’s hard. In the interviews with women who have been assaulted by fellow members, the damage that has been done to these good people is monumental.
Many people are angry that more time was not given to the offenders. This seems to be the prevailing sentiment. I understand the anger but don’t know if adding a decade onto their sentences would be of any benefit. To me, the problem that needs to be addressed is where in the information chain were the two offenders made to understand that what they did was not wrong on every possible level? You can execute them both tomorrow but still, there is a problem that needs to be dealt with.
It’s a situation where you would like to be able to point a finger and say, that’s the reason and be done. You have to be careful when you do this because it’s easy to miss.
I think to a great degree, we humans still divide ourselves into two species, even though we are monotypic. There are males and females. We see them as different and not equal. Things get better when women get more equality. That is a bit obvious but I think it leads to better results up the road. If it’s a man’s world as they say, then men, your world is a poorly run carnage fest.
It is obvious that the two offenders saw the victim as some one that could be treated as a thing. This is not about sex, it is about power and control. I guess that is what I am getting at. Sex was probably not the hardest thing for the two to get, so that wasn’t the objective. When you hear the jokes being made during the crime, it is the purest contempt.
So, how do you fix that? I’m just shooting rubber bands at the night sky but here are a few ideas: Put women’s studies in high school the curriculum from war heroes to politicians, writers, speakers, activists, revolutionaries and let young people understand that women have been kicking ass in high threat conditions for ages and they are worthy of respect.
Total sex ed in school. Learn how it all works. Learn what the definition of statutory rape is and that it is rape, that date rape is rape, that rape is rape.
In the spirit of equal time, sites like Huffington Post should have sections for male anatomy hanging out instead of just the idiotic celebrity “side boob” and “nip slip” camera ops. I have no idea what that would be like to have a camera in my face at every turn, looking for “the” shot. I know what some of you are saying. “Then why do they wear clothes like that unless they want those photos taken?” I don’t know what to tell ya. Perhaps just don’t take the fuckin picture? Evolve? I don’t know.
Education, truth, respect, equality—these are the things that can get you from a to b very efficiently.
It must be an awful time for the parents of all three of these people and their relatives and I hope they all get to a better place soon.
What else? That’s all I’ve got. Thanks for reading this. Henry
(source)
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Doesn’t mean it isn’t re-traumatizing. Ostensibly the victim has to revisit SOME part of the crime. Are they required to recount the events? Identify their assaulter in a lineup? All of those things can be triggering.
Sadly, I doubt I can change your mind on this, but I think the Wikipedia article on victim-blaming does a great job of discussing this.
“Victim blaming occurs when the victim(s) of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment are held entirely or partially responsible for the transgressions committed against them (regardless of whether the victim actually had any responsibility for the incident).”
Also: “People familiar with victimology are much less likely to see the victim as responsible. Knowledge about prior relationship between victim and perpetrator increases perceptions of victim blame for rape, but not for robbery.”
Fact of the matter: she was a child. So were they. But the difference is that she WAS helpless. She was helpless because she was unconscious. Doesn’t really matter whose actions or behaviors got her there.
We can find all kinds of reasons to blame her:
– If she wasn’t passed out drunk but was drugged, then she shouldn’t have had a drink at that party.
– If she wasn’t drunk or drugged, then she shouldn’t have lied to her parents and gone to the party in the first place.
– If she had gotten permission to go to the party, then she shouldn’t have worn THAT outfit (god, can you believe she WORE that?)
– If she hadn’t done anything wrong, maybe she shouldn’t have gone outside while being female. Everyone knows that being female is the #1 contributing factor to rape and sexual assault. Women should probably just quit that already.
…Where does the buck stop for responsibility? Who, in their right mind, should ever look at a passed out person (man OR woman) and think, “I should rape them”, as opposed to, “I should make sure they’re okay and taken care of.”
Yes. Lock up the boys. They – and ONLY they – are the ones who chose to commit a crime here.
UPdate/correction…
It was pointed out to me that “good samaritan” law is for protection of the samaritan against future civil lawsuit from the victim or the victim’s family, to entice society to get involved to help save someone if they can.
so, “good samaritan” law is the wrong term i used….
it was suggested to me that even existing law about the spectators disorderly conduct, or maybe a charge of negligence, might be the legal side of things that a prosecuter can use.
IM not sure, but surely something needs to be addressed with the spectators tho.
hey, the same rules apply to men…..men can also be raped, and sometimes are
Are you really telling me you don’t see any way these guys could not have stopped themselves from:
* raping the victim
* recording themselves raping the victim
* putting video of themselves raping the victim online?
Because if that’s what you are really saying, I’m glad they’re behind bars. I don’t want young men with that little self-control out on the streets.
No one here is for blaming the victim. Don’t be so foolish to think that everything is cut and dry and black or white. But ones actions can leave then in a better position to be taken advantage of. What I have been saying is that people should take care to try and avoid putting themselves in these situations. That are some things that are clearly preventable. Obviously the girl isn’t a fortuneteller she didn’t know where the night would lead. But perhaps if she practiced some restraint she would have been in a better position to defend herself. Might not have presented herself as an easy target. That MIGHT have been enough deterrent for her would be attackers to move along. Everything that happened from the rape on is obviously out of her control. the fall out is out of her hands. But there was a point that she had some opportunity to make better choices. We can’t move back and change what happened. Again we can only use it as a learning experience for others. but by ignoring the fact that there was some lack of judgement that led to the events of the night that the girl did have control over. we are excusing her own poor behavior that led to enabling her attackers to raping her. No where in this statement or realization of truth does it excuse the despicable actions of the boys. or the classmates that witnessed it or the coaches that covered it up or the community’s reaction.
So your life is incomplete if you aren’t allowed to get blackout drunk? What does it say about you that you are more concerned with getting irresponsibly intoxicated so that you are so incoherent that you are unable to care for yourself rather then to be conscious of the dangers that surround you in this world.
Yes, Merrill, it could have been avoided. The way you avoid young women being raped is by teaching young men not to rape, regardless of the circumstances…what the girl was wearing, how drunk she was of any of the other lame excuses that some people believe justify rape.
The key to teaching young men not to rape is not to allow young men to fall into the delusions of the culture of male entitlement that leads them to believe that anything, including women’s bodies, is theirs for the taking.
You really don’t think there is a difference? Do you remember high school?
You are kidding or at least I hope so. You think that just because they are ‘stupid, drunk, teenage boys’ it gives them the right to do what they did? I hope that’s not what you said…if you did, you are one sick puppy. Wouldn’t surprise me if this hasn’t happened to someone you know (being stupid, drunk, teenage boys) They should have been tried as adults (which I’ll never understand why they weren’t) and given longer sentences with forced counseling. Do love the fact that they have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their meaningless lives. As no one in Stupidville learned anything about mass media, there have been other arrests made due to threats (from texts) on both sides. They should officially change their town name to Stupidville. That’s the name I grew up hearing LOL
Anonymous has created a website with more background information on this disgusting crime. http://www.localleaks.me/localleaks/steubenvillefiles/index.html
The network of enablers, peers and adults, that supported and encouraged the self-named ‘Rape Crew” is ample demonstration of Sir Thomas More’s words.
The sad thing is that porn not only darkens men’s respect for women, it colours women’s respect for themselves.
Go to this website full of information dug up by Anonymous and you’ll find that what the papers reported was only the tip of the story.
http://www.localleaks.me/localleaks/steubenvillefiles/index.html
The girl was lured into a trap by another girl. Read more here from information dug up by Anonymous. http://www.localleaks.me/localleaks/steubenvillefiles/index.html
Another sicko typical response…she asked for it. Can’t believe that in the year 2013 there are still people around that think like this. You need lobotomies so you can think properly.
Thank you– one of the best posts I have read in a while.
Henry, i agree with you. everyone needs to learn and no one should be assaulted or raped . I agree that education is the key, the full monty on who what where what it looks like and how to why you should and respect no just your self but , parents to children, children to elders and sisters to brothers and mothers to daughters and fathers to sons . I could go on but I think I made my point . EDUCATE, home church, school, family.
This took a couple of days of being called names too…but I think I can finally articulate what I mean…
(but if a word is wrong, it is not that I am stupid, it is that English is my 3rd language, so disagree with the meaning if you must, but no one is stupid here, alright?!)
natural rights vs legal rights, and
rights vs priviledges vs freedom
attitudes of “rights” by Americans vs non-Americans
as in…. “I have the right to ______ (verb)”
– a couple examples I have actually seen this week –
“I have the right to leave my house unlocked”
“I have the right to walk down a dark street at night”
also,
“I have the right to not be raped when I am with friends”
“I have the right to not be violated at all”
so herein, I think, is the actual “rub” that I finally figured out…
people, businesses, and governments WILL infringe, or try to infringe, upon your rights.
legal rights have to be enforceable, by whoever/whatever is granting that “right”
Natural rights – you really only have O N E natural right.
which is – to die. YUP, morbid, but nature makes no guarantees about life, actions, even your birth……
BUT if you do live, nature does give you one absolute right, and that is to die.
any other “rights” are legal rights, granted by an entity.
The entity can be a government, a church, even a society or culture. but these rights are still granted by “some entity” of some sort.
“rights” only matter, if and when they can be ENFORCED. The “rights” granted by government, are enforceable by trying to minimise risks, trying to educate, and having procedures to deal with violations of these rights.
Victims are NOT at fault, whether for doing or not doing something.
Perpertrators are ALWAYS at fault, because the perpertrator chooses to do something that is wrong.
Can victims reduce risk? Sure. and we see that everyday.
A city of 100,000 people KNOWS it’s risky to have a city with no ____ (noun)…let’s say police department.
It doesn’t mean that crime has to or not has to exist without a police department, but we as a society know that to reduce our risk of being ___(verb) say, mugged on the street, that we hire police officers to patrol, to know a neighbourhood, to arrest criminals in previous crimes, etc, to help make that street safe.
That is reducing risk. That is also having the government, ie police, help enforce our right of freedom to walk outside unharmed. It also means, that the police themselves are not to infringe upon your right to walk outside, because as the government, they are granting you that right.
So, does that mean your body has the right to remain unviolated, ie, not mugged, because you have this right? NO
because a person can still come around and try to infringe upon your right. So, you have the right to try to protect yourself, or to escape, or to get help from someone who CAN ENFORCE your right…ie, your friends, strangers, the police, etc.
If you are passed out unconcious, say from being hit over the head, and not able to enforce your own rights, maybe someone else around you can enforce your rights for you, such as protecting you, calling for help, stopping an attacker, or something.
But then again, maybe no one will be around at all.
Or, even worse, others will join in and magnify the crime.
If you are mugged, you have the right to try to get the enforcing entity of protecting that right to try to help you or seek justice, as well as create deterrent for others to reduce this unwanted activity in the future.
A police can arrest a mugger. A court can try a mugger. A prison can jail a mugger.
These are the enforcement tools. Yes, these are after the fact, but this is enforcing your right to not be mugged by this person again, and so you enforce your rights.
Does your “right” to walk around unviolated and unmugged extended to other people? No, which is why we still keep the police and the courts, and we still educate other people on walking aruond safely, and all these other things that we do to reduce RISKS.
Sometimes, the only justice is street justice.
It’s a travesty that hundreds of thousands of people are in prison for non-violent drug “offenses” with really long sentences while people here whine about these rapists getting a short sentence. They should either be reeducated or eradicated. I agree that prison does not effectively rehabilitate anyone but that’s quite a different story.
All the witnesses to the crime (there were many) should be charged. All the police who tried to cover it up should be charged. Anybody who tries to downplay the horror or the prevalence of rape should be reeducated. The cops DO NOT help. This rape culture is sick. Enough is enough.
The first question the cops ask of a rape victim: “Who else have you told about this?”
The cops tried to cover up the rape in Steubenville. They went after the Anonymous hacker who blew the whole thing wide open. The cops protect rapists. If they want justice, rape victims shouldn’t tell the cops: they should take matters into their own hands and blow the fucker to hell. That’s justice, isn’t it?
While education is certainly valuable, classrooms are no substitute for the real life connections and healing that can occur when perpetrators of violence are 1. given the opportunity to connect with their own vulnerability, fear, and shame and 2. the perpetrators are held accountable and given the opportunity to better understand the impact of their actions & where appropriate and where the victim is amenable to reconnect with their victims and, to make amends.
I am a big believer in the power of Restorative Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice) –it’s methodology–and in the case of say animal cruelty and abuse, It is my thought that you have a better chance of transforming a wounded person by say making their “punishment’ to go learn to administer care to shelter animals who have been abused or work with a group like the Healing Species, or other organizations that teach compassion and care towards that which they’ve harmed. Anyhow, the idea is to provide the opportunity for the perpetrators of violence to become accountable for what they’ve done not be “shamed”…Shame only breeds more violence.
Are some people beyond help? Yes, quite frankly, I do believe that there are hardened criminals who are too far gone and ought to remain in the penal system for life. But, many more might become better people given the chance. Hands down you stand a better chance of that individual transforming by believing in and championing and supporting their innate “goodness” rather than perpetually shaming their “badness” by throwing them into a system that literally profits from incarcerating people.
Like our medical establishment that values keeping people ill, our penal system values (because there are big $$ involved) in keeping people criminals. In the case of rape, these young men need to not be cast onto a path that reinforces their “criminality”, but justice for the young women needs to be let’s say achieved rather thanserved. How do we as a nation decide how this is done? We need to begin asking what is “justice”…if it is an eye for an eye…then alas we will only breed lifelong criminals…Whatever we got going on is not working and certainly classroom education is at least a start! BY THE WAY love how RIGHT TO RIGHT OF HENRY’S REMARK IS HOODIE ALLEN’S totally cliche video that of course objectifies women…seriously??!
BY THE WAY love how RIGHT TO RIGHT OF HENRY’S ARTICLE IS HOODIE ALLEN’S totally cliche video that of course objectifies women…seriously??!
In Florida, when an animal’s population becomes out of control, we hunt them. It sounds like there are enough rapists to declare an open season. A bounty would’nt hurt either. These creatures don’t even try to hide, it’s ok to make examples of them because rapists are livestock fit only for food, they are not people.
Amen henry, well said. Unfortunately most people are out for blood and care not for change.
@facebook-100003791884550:disqus greatest statement ever!! People just want to be part of the lynch mob… that’s what’s really sad. It’s like the issue doesn’t even matter… smh
Fuck the law Shorty, straight up and down. She only got fingered? What?!? And ya’ll got pitchforks out? I bet if this happened to your neighbor and wasn’t on the news, you wouldn’t give 2 shits. I hope the victim’s alright. I hope them 2 idiots learn their lesson. But this lynch mob is a complete fail!! I bet the victim doesn’t even like this lynch mob. I hope she’s alright. I’m out
Things r getting worst. Some of our politicians r trying to redefine rape. The changes some of our politicians want to make. No force rape is not rape, unconscious means u can’ t say no so its not rape, and finally there is no such thing as date rape.
Why? To stop abortions. Don’t use rape laws to stop abortions.
The laws in most states say, “Rape or health reason for abortions”. So the Anti-abortionist politicians r using the law of rape to stop abortions.
Did u know that 31 states in our country allows the rapist to have rights to the unborn baby caused by rape. Yeah, daddy is in jail but when he gets out u have to visit him and I have to share custody with him.
Redefine rape will protect the rapist but not the victim.
Stop abortions , yes, but not this way.
Just think, if the law goes through, these boys would be free to do this again.
I am so sorry that happened to you Heather, believe me, I’ve had my share too. I stand corrected, I know being a victim is never our fault. What I meant to convey was that if we don’t report things, we aren’t helping the next victim avoid that person, but as you say, sometimes nobody cares when we try to stop the perpetrators!! I am glad you are okay, I am too, but I worry about those who will become victims!!
it is a little different LeeAnn, however, we’ve seen how often it’s swept under the rug. Such as the military case we have here — among thousands — where a general pardoned a convicted rapist who raped a female soldier. We live in a world of rape culture, and I figure if we aren’t going to be protected by those who are responsible for doing so, we are going to have to take action — with meat cleavers, machetes, or whatever else happens to be handy.
Inluding the blender where it should be put after removal.
I know that sounds nuts, or harsh, but the truth is, if nobody is going to behave like gentlemen, we have to do what we have to do.
You’ve completely misunderstood my point Douglas. Believe me, as a victim of EVERY type of rape that there is, I don’t EVER blame a victim, nor the victim of ANY type of crime. My point was that when crime isn’t reported, which is what the young lady was mentioning being afraid to do, it causes MORE rape. Because the individual who is sick enough to rape is OUT THERE, and will rape again, and even in my case when my first rapist was prosecuted, HE GOT ACQUITTED, went on to rape again, and GOT ACQUITTED AGAIN. i NEVER blame the victims, but you’ve missed my point, and I will try to choose my words more carefully next time. It’s the same with ANY crime, not just rape: how effective law enforcement is sometimes depends on whether or not things are reported. And believe me, I never again reported a rape that happened to me, because I knew it was mostly a waste of time. So I guess I’m just as much to blame as anybody.
Except, of course, the criminals who are the actual problem.
I DID NOT BLAME ANYBODY, you are putting words in my mouth. And yes it is underreported, but you need to calm down and understand my point. SNITCHING and REPORTING are GOOD THINGS. I encourage everybody to snitch everybody for everything, because pusses deserve to be snitched out. If they are so big and bad, what are they afraid of?????
I didn’t blame anybody, I stated a fact. If we don’t report crime, there is LESS FUNDING TO FIGHT THE CRIME. Just suppose all rapes were reported? MORE POLICE would be out there, just possibly there might be fewer criminals roaming the streets. I know this because I worked with those statistics, I know the results of not reporting, but that in no way amounts to “blaming the victim”. Stop looking for a fight, you won’t get one from me.
Fuck me? Oh is that how a grown man responds to a grandmother? You been charged with anything? I have to wonder. EVERYBODY stop putting words in my mouth, that is NOT what I said. I said underreporting does have an impact, IT DOES AND YOU’RE DUMB if you say otherwise. I did not BLAME any victim, I’ve been raped more times than you or I can count.
there is not guilt trip, unless you’re the one feeling guilty about something.
Again, no, you misunderstand my intent. If somebody beats up your kid and you don’t report it, do you think you’ve helped the next person? NO YOU HAVEN’T. And don’t give me that TX bullshit, I don’t live anywhere near Texas and happen to despise the state of TX.
correction: I despise the types of people too often found in TX, but they are found many other places as well. So you blame me for generalizing and then you go and do it too, dumbass.
No I didn’t blame the victim for HER victimization, so stop the b.s. I’ve never once had anybody tell me I’ve said anything “awful”, I am routinely praised for my opinions by almost everybody, hundreds of people. If I happened to choose my words badly this time, I apologize for that, but my intent was to encourage REPORTING, which all too often doesn’t happen, ME INCLUDED. After my first rapist was acquitted, do you think I bothered to report subsequent rapes? Date rape, stranger rape, spousal rape, rape resulting in pregnancy, All of these have happened to me. I never intended to blame any victim. I merely pointed out what EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW in case they find themselves in a situation. That doesn’t place blame, it’s ENCOURAGEMENT to fight their violators. GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT? Got issues with authority or law enforcement? so sorry if you think it’s okay NOT to report. That includes a bike being stolen, rape, white collar fraud, etc. etc. SILENCE EQUALS APPROVAL.
well how many times have you been raped Amanda? I guarantee, not as many times as I have, I’ve never met anybody raped as many times as I have been. Don’t talk down to me, you apparently can’t master reading comprehension. I NEVER BLAMED the victim, ever. I merely pointed out that ALL CRIMES should be reported for OBVIOUS reasons. You of all people should know that is how you get FUNDING TO FIGHT CRIME if you work with victims, how stupid are you? Screw this arrogance, here i was trying to comfort the young lady, and you all want to change the topic entirely. What, nobody else to pick on today? If you weren’t attacking a grandmother on the internet you’d all be out raping or taping the entire thing I figure. grow up.
I DID NOT BLAME THE YOUNG LADY FOR BEING RAPED, so stop your lying b.s. YOU KNOW damn well what I said: FUNDING TO FIGHT CRIME IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO REPORTING CRIME. My moral stance on it has nothing to do with the victim, it has to do with the perpetrators.
If that were true, that we have no right to be unviolated, then it should okay for every rape victim to go ahead and cut off the weapon that assault them, without punishment. We all know if a woman cuts off her rapist’s organ, she will get more punishment than he will. LIFE IN PRISON, FIRST OFFENSE, NO CHANCE OF PAROLE, that is the ONLY way (short of emasculation) that will stop rapists. They are NOT curable.
Which was essentially the comment i made in reply to Amy. That reporting crime, any crime, is directly proportional to how many funds and police there are to fight crime. At least, it used to be that way until we ended up with a fasciocapitalistic corporatocracy with shareholders in private prisons getting all the money, instead of the money being used to fight crime.
Sorry for that Kathryn, I know too well. my first rapist was acquitted, because I was a cocktail waitress if you believe the prosecutor’s viewpoint of juries way back then. Thankfully juries and forensics have advanced a lot since then. I even had bruises on the back of my neck where he had his hands around my neck. But do you think I bothered reporting subsequent rapes? I didn’t because it didn’t do me any good the first time. If it were to happen again, I’d probably kill or emasculate the rapist so some actual justice would be done, but having studied forensics for a dozen years now, I would go ahead an report again. It’s not always the science that is the determining factor, but it helps. Often the attitude in society is the real problem, and of course, that is why there are so many rapists to begin with. Because society is sex obsessed, and it shows. It shows up with rapists running loose EVERYWHERE.
Jim was not being disrespectful, I don’t see that he was. But we all should not even be having this discussion, and we wouldn’t be, if all rapists were given a choice they didn’t offer their victims. Offer them life imprisonment or emasculation. RAPE WOULD CEASE.
and everybody here needs to stop blaming Jim and me, accusing us both of blaming the victim. I AM A VICTIM. I never blame a victim. Reporting is a huge issues, getting convictions is a huge issue. The BIGGER issue? KEEPING THEM LOCKED UP FOR LIFE ONCE THEY DO GET CONVICTED AND SENTENCED, THAT IS THE ISSUE.
Jason, don’t call her an idiot, but I have been harassed here for saying what you tried to say, although you weren’t very kind about it. I said also that reporting is important. Now everybody says I’m blaming the victim. We both perhaps made a bad choice of words, but yours was mean spirited, mine just confused people.
Never mind the very genuine fear of reprisal.
The last thing I would do is urge a victim to report _in order to save others_. They have enough guilt as it is thanks to society’s fucked-up attitudes. Telling them it’s their fault if someone else is raped by their rapist is shameful and repulsive.
Rape victims are made to feel guilty for their attack. Look at how they’re reported. She should have… Why didn’t she… What was she wearing… She shouldn’t have… She she she she she. Never mind why HE did what he did, let’s concentrate on how she could have prevented it.
Sad he hear such thing and I hope it will be better in the future. It’s quite ridiculous that a crime has to be committed so many times before there actually is anyone who question where the problems is originated. I mean, this has been made several times before but it’s still the same.
You’re a male supremacist for trying to deflect the wrongness and responsibility for the rape from the young men who raped her and, in a classic blame-the-victim stance, placing it on the young woman – “why in the fuck are people still saying that “this poor girl” is a complete victim.”
You are a racist for citing the city of Oakland, with its predominately African-American population, as the place where you shouldn’t be “surprised to be stabbed and robbed.” I lived in Oakland and the East Bay for 28 years and found my chances as a European-American of being robbed and attacked to be no greater than living in predominately European-American cities. In fact I have had more hostility sent my way by other European-American men than by African-American men.
I’m sorry but it doesn’t really help your cause that you are claiming that you’re not blaming the victim when the comment itself still stands here to read.
Most of the people here seems to disagree with your interpretation of your own comment and with your point of view. It probably isn’t your intention but still the comment is quite obviously blaming a rape victim for any future rapes her rapist commits unless she reports the crime.
When a victim of a violent crime (or any crime) stands the apparent risk of being even more injured or hurt by reporting the crime or standing up to the offender, it’s his or her primary duty to protect himself/herself from further harm. If his/her choice is to not report the crime, the only people to blame is the surrounding society that have failed to create a safe environment to report the crime.
Your argument is correct ONLY if you choose to ignore all other aspects of being a victim of a crime, and that is a very cynical choice, or maybe just naive.
Whenever people in the media refer to rape victims as permanently damaged, beyond all hope of repair, or as Henry Rollins says “the person who is going to do a life sentence is her,” it makes me so angry. The crime of rape is one of the worst things imaginable; that said, seeing it as a life sentence undermines women’s ability to be resilient. How does it help this woman for people in the media to constantly tell her that her life is over and that she has no hope of ever experiencing joy again? What happened to this woman is terrible. That said, I believe in her power to overcome.