March 31st, 2016 
Gabe Aikins 
In case you went off the grid months ago to live in the woods and are just now returning to the civilized world, you may not know that season 2 of Netflix’s Daredevil was released on March 18. Based on the trailers, the second season looked to build off the stories that began in season 1, and introduce two of the most important characters from the Daredevil comics, Elektra and The Punisher.
UTG Editor In Chief, Brian Leak, and two of our staff writers, Gabe Aikins and Drew Caruso, binge-watched the entire season after it was released (Gabe finished it in two days; Drew finished in a week; Brian finished in three days but started five days after its release). Once all three had concluded their respective binge, they conversed about anything and everything that came to mind regarding the season. The full conversation has been transcribed below; sorry it isn’t a podcast. If you feel we’ve left anything out, have incorrect facts, or if you’d like to share your thoughts on the season with us, feel free to comment and let us know.
[Warning: This conversation contains heavy spoilers for both seasons of ‘Daredevil’]
Gabe: Alright! Daredevil season 2. Where do you want to start?
Drew: We can do it episode by episode, character, pieces, whichever.
Gabe: I think character could be a good place to start.
Brian: Sure, works for me.
Drew: Okay, cool. So Daredevil/Matt Murdock.
Gabe: At the end of season 1, it appeared that he had come to grips with living his double life. He patched things up with Foggy, put Fisk away, and was in as healthy of a place as a vigilante can be. That all goes out the window pretty quickly. Essentially, I think Matt goes through a more intense version of his journey last season, which is: how far do you go to protect what you care about?
Drew: Yeah, it seems that while the gang is still there, Daredevil has become a stronger splinter in the group, with Matt drifting away from Foggy and Karen, and still dealing with his philosophical crisis of what he is doing with the backdrop of his Catholicism. I think that’s handled pretty heavily with the beginning hostage scene in the church.
Gabe: I was never a fan of how heavy-handed the church scenes were in the first season, so it was a relief to me that besides that cold open in the first episode and Grotto’s funeral in “Penny and Dime,” there is much less of that in season 2. I’m all for Peter McRobbie getting paid, but the reduction of Father Lantom scenes was a major plus for me.
Drew: Yeah, it seemed that being on the Daredevil path for a season, Matt needed less Catholic intervention, and a more personal one. Since we are at the beginning, let’s talk about the Irish meeting.
Gabe: That scene to me embodies the best of what Daredevil can do. It was beautifully acted, it gave a nice batch of plot without feeling like an information dump, and was dark without being overly grim. It feels claustrophobic, which makes Frank’s “intervention” all the more startling. Was I the only one secretly hoping we would get a Colin Farrell cameo as a member of the Kitchen Irish?
Drew: Yes, absolutely. The only one.
Brian: It didn’t cross my mind whatsoever but I would have been totally okay with that.
Gabe: This is why I’m not in charge of making these shows.
Drew: I thought it was a great way to introduce Punisher. Absolutely brutal and unforgiving, and we as an audience don’t really know why. Just carnage.
Brian: It immediately made me recall how violent and graphic the first season was. It really took liberties with being on Netflix, but I felt it was almost necessary to portray the grittiness of Hell’s Kitchen and the Daredevil canon; maybe even more so in this season with Frank Castle/The Punisher.
Gabe: The whole first episode does a fantastic job of introducing Punisher. He’s only onscreen for about five minutes and gets literally one word of dialogue, but his presence is felt throughout the hour.
Brian: Yeah, the intensity is pretty high right off the bat, which I appreciated.
Drew: The hospital scene is very intense as well; shot very well. With Karen and Grotto running through the hall as Frank is blasting away.
Gabe: And Jon Bernthal absolutely nailed it. He’s believable in conveying Punisher’s anger, precision, brutality, everything. It’s very much a dark mirror of Daredevil: a man who puts what he believes is his duty above all else.
Brian: I agree, but I will say that their bickering would get a little tiresome after awhile of them growling and barking at each other in their deep, gravely tones.
Drew: I think the duality between them was one of the strongest aspects this season. What was his line? “You are one bad day away from being me.” Something like that?
Gabe: Right, their entire exchange on the rooftop was breathtaking. They’re both 100 percent convinced that their way of doing things is right and, at least at first, fundamentally don’t understand each other. It’s a bummer that a lot of the best Punisher material is front-loaded into the beginning of the season.
Drew: Yeah, that was a disappointment in a way. Once he is “caged” in prison, and even with his breakout, his actions are very discrete.
Gabe: He is involved in two of the best fight scenes of the season though. He provokes the Dogs Of Hell, who Matt ends up fighting in “New York’s Finest,” and fights his way out of the prison block in “Seven Minutes in Heaven.” Besides being breathtakingly shot and choreographed, those fights also display the differences between Matt and Frank. Matt goes painfully out of his way to just incapacitate his foes, while Frank kills with an uncomfortable lack of emotion.
Drew: Yeah, very distinct.
Brian: One of my favorite things about the prison fight—besides it just being a great, gruesomely violent scene—is that Frank’s in an all-white jumpsuit whereas all the Cell Block D inmates are in orange; it makes for a cool contrast in the scene and helps Frank stand out amidst the chaos; even though his jumpsuit is covered in blood by the end of it.
Gabe: We haven’t talked at all yet about Elektra, and I really want to. I think Élodie Yung does a fantastic job with what she’s given. She’s smart and bad-ass and I really enjoyed her character. It’s a shame that she is saddled with my one of my least favorite plot threads in all of Marvel’s Cinematic Universe.
Drew: Which is?
Gabe: Everything involving The Hand. That plot, which takes up the back half of the season, is everything that I don’t like about the show. Daredevil takes itself very seriously. For some things, that is definitely warranted. You should be serious when dealing with the brutality and mercilessness of the Punisher. The Hand is not one of those things. The Hand is a very goofy idea. The Hand is an ancient clan of immortal ninjas that are in an endless war against a group of good ninjas called The Chaste, which is led by an old blind man named Stick. That is, on its face, ridiculous. And if you at least give me a nudge or wink of “we know this is wild, just roll with us,” I am perfectly willing to buy in. But Daredevil never gives us that. And the whole plot falls flat for me. And I still have no idea what a Black Sky is, or if it exists, or if Elektra is one.
Brian: I completely agree with most of that, Gabe. It gets really tiring watching Daredevil grind through ninja after ninja for what feels like half the season. The Hand is basically the Foot Clan from TMNT or the fucking Putty Patrol from Power Rangers. It’s definitely goofy; not as goofy as either of my examples but it gets way too redundant and entirely boring. Maybe it’s necessary based on the comics, but it’s not executed well for a show that’s mostly cast in darkness, literally and thematically. And on the subject of the Black Sky – yeah, what the hell? Two seasons in a row and they don’t explain shit; they just keep saying it, implying there’s some massive threat, but it’s hard to care when nothing happens. It’s all so vague. Same for the war between The Hand and The Chaste. There are no known stakes due to a lack of any explanation on the writers’ part, so I have trouble getting invested in all of that.
Drew: See, I feel like it had to deal with The Hand and Chaste eventually. While yeah, it has realistic elements, it’s still comic book adaptation. The Hand vs. Daredevil is such a huge part of that character. Maybe it was rushed this season; the season felt like two separate things—one part dealing with The Punisher, the other The Hand, and it came off disjointed, but I’m okay with where it’s going.
Gabe: I agree that the disjointed narrative threw me off. There was even swelling music and wide pans at the end of the first part of the Punisher story, and it felt like the end of a season to me. And then The Hand just happens.
Drew: Yeah, it was abrupt for sure.
Brian: “Penny And Dime” felt like a season finale to me, which is where I’m assuming you’re talking about, Gabe, and that’s only four episodes in. So yeah, this season was structured poorly. On the topic of that specific episode, though, Frank’s monologue in the cemetery was excellent. It made me tear up. Maybe that’s because I’m a father and there’s a lot of power in what he’s saying regarding being a parent and what happens to his family, but it was great either way.
Gabe: The other big thing that bothered me this season involved Karen. I love Karen. She’s smart and capable and probably my favorite character. But it’s hard for me to fathom that she can’t figure out that Matt is Daredevil. Karen does more onscreen investigative and legal work than any other character in the series. It seems insulting to her character that she has to be told by Matt.
Drew: Yep, I agree. Seems like it’s not convenient enough yet for her to figure it out.
Gabe: I have one minor observation that bugged me that I want to ask you about. If you’ll indulge me.
Drew: Shoot.
Gabe: So Daredevil gets a new mask, and I really like the design of it. The new mask has some sort of red plastic over the eyes. Do the eyes blink? Throughout the season I kept trying to decide if the eyes blinked or if it was just how the lighting played off of them. I spent a weirdly large amount of time trying to figure this out.
Drew: I think it may just be lighting. Wait, does he show her…Karen, at the end? Did I forget that?!
Gabe: Yeah he shows her the mask! To be fair a lot of the focus at the end is on the fact we’re going to get Evil Elektra in the future.
Drew: Yeah.
Brian: Speaking of the mask, I’m enjoying the gradual progression of Melvin Potter/Gladiator, even if they don’t end up really using that character completely. Anyway, going back to Matt’s reveal to Karen…throughout most of the season, I felt like Karen knew, or at least suspected that Matt was Daredevil. She makes little quips here and there, like about him being in a fight club, and it just felt like she knew but was waiting for him to open up about it. When he shows her the mask at the end and says “I’m Daredevil,” I didn’t think we necessarily got enough of a reaction from her to know that she’s either A) shocked because she’s finding out for the first time and trying to process it, or B) maybe kind of shocked that he’s finally telling the truth, and she’s gonna be like, “I know.”
Gabe: I’m curious about where they’re going to go with Fisk as well. Vincent D’Onofrio was great in his limited screen time this season.
Brian: Visually I can’t think of anyone better than D’Onofrio to fill the role of Wilson Fisk/Kingpin, but I feel like he’s a terrible actor and is too over the top. His cadence drives me nuts and the scene from season 1 where he’s speaking Mandarin with Madame Gao still haunts me. However, I didn’t hate him as much in his smaller scenes this season. I thought he was pretty good in the scene where Matt visits him at the prison.
Gabe: D’Onofrio to me is the type of actor that you can’t give significant screentime to or have anchor a show, but he can be great when utilized in the proper doses. I think the prison scenes suited him incredibly well, as he wasn’t asked to do too much. Brian, in the scene you’re talking about, I thought D’Onofrio did his best work of the season. It was unsettling from the beginning knowing how much Fisk had perverted and contorted the system to work for him, and I think Charlie Cox did an excellent job of conveying how uncomfortable and frightening it would be finding yourself trapped in that system, even for a moment.
Drew: I enjoyed Kingpin in season one, but I think I dug Fisk more this time around. Maybe we had to see him fall to such lows in prison, to see how well of an enforcer he is. Just physically speaking, seeing him in the prison, enclosed, trapped, and how much physicality the character has, I think the isolation only added to his intimidating demeanor. Couple that with showing how, within his little time in prison, Fisk was able to manipulate the current boss, Frank, and more, to bend to his will and put him as much back on top as he could be where he was.
Brian: Going back to Karen, I do think she is probably the strongest and most interesting character this season. I’m looking forward to the show finally getting into her past, which they started hinting at here finally. I love her interactions with Ellison, even if you have to suspend disbelief a bit to accept her abrupt transition into investigative journalism (which she definitely needs to work at because her article she reads in the VO at the end is terrible). At least she’s not Foggy who just bitches and moans for 13 episodes straight. Dude needs to rejoin the Mighty Ducks and take his tempers out on the ice.
Gabe: The biggest problem with Foggy is that it felt like he didn’t have any sort of growth or anything to do this season. Even when he was heading Frank’s case in court, it was presented to us in the frame of his falling out with Matt, which has been continuously ongoing for a season and a half.
Brian: Very true. Apart from Karen who took some big steps this season (and maybe Matt—just towards the end when he seems to accept Frank’s way of doing things as he’s taking out ninjas from the rooftop when Elektra gets killed), most of the characters are pretty one-note and unvaried. I think Foggy might fall victim to that more than anyone, although Matt can feel very repetitive most of the time, too.
Drew: Yeah, it feels like Foggy had most of his time to shine in season one, and here was just used at the floating voice of “maybe don’t do this?” to Matt. I did enjoying seeing Matt becoming more consumed by Daredevil, and the fall of Nelson and Murdock certainly had weight. Speaking on Karen, I thought she was fantastic this season, especially her relationship with Ellison. When she says “you’d never pull this patriarchal shit with Ben,” I was happy to see her for once finding her footing as a strong character, even if it was with the fastest rise in the business.
Brian: So are we not going to talk about the big hole in this season? The literal hole. The 40-story deep hole that we see, gets talked about briefly in episode 7, then is never mentioned again. I later thought that maybe that’s where The Hand dug out their ancient re-animator blood urn thing, but I’m pretty sure that’s not the case, and I think there might be something in season 1 about Nobu trying to get it delivered or something? Plus the hole’s perimeter seems way too big for the urn which is pretty snug to a human body. Unless I totally missed something, it seems like the hole is one of those things being set up for season 3, or even for the Defenders series, but it’s just another part of the mess that makes this season really convoluted. The only thing I think I got from it was that they were loading the dirt into those train cars. We don’t have to get into the whole Beast thing yet, even though it likely ties into what’s going to happen with Elektra, but do you think the hole plays into that?
Gabe: My guess would be that the hole is how the Hand gets in and out of the city, since there has to be a tunnel system or something, right? I agree it was weird how quickly all the characters gloss over it. Matt might be a little distracted from Elektra getting sliced open, but that seems like the kind of thing Stick should have elaborated on. I know the blood urn is a separate location, but I don’t think it’s ever addressed how it actually got there.
Drew: The hole is certainly a hole, but I think I can wait until next season, as long as it’s decently described. I imagine for now we can assume it was a means of travel, clouded with a little more mystery. This season had more of Stick and The Chaste, so I’m thinking maybe next season involves Daredevil working alongside them a bit more, and maybe we’d even get a real glance at Stone.
Brian: That was all kind of confusing with the blood draining, too, but I think that was an episode I was watching late and kind of falling asleep. They were using those kids to farm some kind of organic chemicals, ones they’re using for the big urn thing? The (willing?) bloodbags seemed like possessed zombies at the hospital or something. On a side note, at the hospital, the scene where Daredevil saves Claire out the window was one of my favorites in the season.
Gabe: What I gathered from it was that the blood farming was how they resurrected their dead and kept themselves alive for centuries. But it seems inefficient if there’s just one urn. Do they have multiple urns? Is the urn just to be used for the Black Sky/Elektra? The fact the bloodbags were so eager to return reminds me of Madame Gao’s workers from season 1, but I’m not sure how she relates to The Hand either. I think the fact we have so many questions really points to how poorly explained and convoluted the second half of the season becomes.
Brian: I definitely had Madame Gao in the back of mind a lot of the time. She knows something but as to what that is, we don’t know. I’m still curious about her potentially out-of-this-world home vaguely referred to in season 1.
Drew: They will need to get into Black Sky more, because we already saw a kid in season one who was considered Black Sky, but Stick took care of him. Going forward I’m hoping for more Madame Gao, and more into the ancient workings of The Chaste and Hand.
Brian: So, another thing: I thought the Blacksmith “reveal” was really weak and disappointing. And on that note, if Frank knows he did some thing in Kandahar (the thing he didn’t reveal to Karen near the shed) that put him at odds with Schoonover, why would he suggest putting him on the stand as a character witness, and why would Schoonover agree to do it and give him this glowing review? To not implicate himself as having a grudge and having something to do with the massacre at the carousel? I guess? And another question – something I wasn’t clear on. Was that supposed to be Schoonover’s shed? He made Karen pull over there but it seemed like it was just by itself far from his house and Frank just kinda found it, then he happens upon this cache of weapons and what becomes his skull vest? Why did Schoonover want her to pull over? Was he gonna kill her?
Gabe: To me it seemed like everyone had a hand in whatever happened in Kandahar, so implicating Frank in it also would have caused Schoonover to implicate himself. However, that might be a very generous interpretation and the real reason could very well be Schoonover took the stand because the plot required him to. Yes, that was supposed to be Schoonover’s shed. That’s how he was committing the copycat Punisher attacks after Frank escaped from prison. I’m assuming Schoonover was going to kill Karen when she pulled over, but it seems dumb to do that a couple hundred feet away from a shed you own.
Brian: Let alone one filled with heavy artillery. For some reason, I totally blanked out on the copycat killings. So yeah, that makes sense now that I remember that whole thing [laughs].
Brian: I was curious if either of you know when this season is supposed to take place in regards to Jessica Jones. Jessica is referenced by Marci as I recall, but Hogarth makes an appearance near the end of this season and I would think she’d have some visible scarring if this took place after season 1 of JJ.
Gabe: Since everything in the MCU, besides Captain America: The First Avenger, usually runs sequentially, I assumed that this took place after JJ, but I could be wrong.
Drew: Yeah, I think we are seeing this as it plays along. This must be after the events of Jessica Jones. That said, I didn’t pick up on the scars thing, and now I am curious. Maybe we are just supposed to assume things healed up pretty damn nicely for her?
Brian: I guess so. So based on Frank’s last scenes, recovering the Microchip disk from his house before he blows it up, do you think they’ll move forward with a solo Punisher show? I feel like they wasted a lot of his storyline in a mere four episodes and kind of took the wind out of the sails that would be an interesting Punisher season, but it depends on what source material they’d decide to use I guess, or if they’d just create a new story.
Gabe: I’m not sure that a solo Punisher show would work. While Daredevil and Jessica Jones have both been dark, I think a Punisher show would be darker than Marvel is willing to go with the MCU. I think it’s much more likely that he becomes a recurring character in Marvel’s future Netflix shows, especially DD and Defenders.
Brian: That’s basically what I’m thinking as well. I feel like they’d really have to stretch to make even one season work in just story alone, let alone multiple.
Drew: I’d like to see Punisher as much as possible in the other shows. As for his own, I am not so convinced. Since Frank is so brutal, and bloodthirsty, I think an entire season of conflict where he just goes in guns blazing would get pretty tired. But, seeing him alongside these characters would be fantastic.
Brian: I have a couple random questions I wanted to see if either of you wanted to touch on, and they both involve Karen being in Frank’s house. When she’s there snooping around, a sensor goes off at the top of the stairs and a van shows up pretty quickly. Who are the people in the van and why don’t they show up when Frank returns to the house for the last time?
Gabe: I’m pretty sure the people in the van were either from the gangs Frank had been killing or a SWAT team sent by the DA’s office.
Brian: Hmm, could be. I don’t remember at what point that was going on and how much was known about Frank yet, but I remember thinking then, and then again when Frank goes to the house, that it was weird that it hadn’t been trashed; either by the gangs or the police trying to find information. Secondly, Frank asks Karen about the dishes and whether or not they were on the kitchen table when she was there. She thinks about it and says that they were washed and in the drain or something like that. When he goes back to the house, there are in fact bowls at the kitchen table when he sits down. Was there a significance there that I missed? It seemed like something that was focused on.
Gabe: I was trying to figure that out as well. Blacksmith taunting him maybe?
Brian: Maybe. I wasn’t sure if he was just trying to remember more, like trying to remember if they had cleaned up that morning before going to the park and carousel or whatever. I think it was insignificant but just shot weirdly to where it seemed important. I also thought Karen was going to mention the One Batch, Two Batch book or even have it with her to give to him.
Drew: I took it as him reliving as much of the last moments together as he could.
Brian: I think you’re right. I was probably reading into it too much.
Brian: Final thoughts or anything else you guys wanna say about the season or anything else?
Gabe: There were things that I loved about this season, but it often got bogged down by its flaws. The second half of the season especially feels like a rushed and ill-defined mess. I definitely found it to be the weakest of Marvel’s Netflix offerings so far, but I do think there’s hope in the storylines teased and left open for DD season 3 and Defenders. Plus, the end of the season gave us a Luke Cage teaser. Is September 30 here yet?
Brian: I hadn’t watched season 1 again since my first binge when it came out—I think Drew and I discussed it a bit then—so I actually didn’t remember some stuff, but I definitely remember being pretty pleased with it and not having many issues at all, which unfortunately isn’t the case with season 2. I was really enjoying this season until around episode 5 I think, when it starts going in too many directions and leaving too many loose ends. I hope those are all cleared up in the series to come. Beyond that, there are still many great moments through the end of the season but the second half really gets messy. Moving forward, I’m anticipating more unraveling of Karen’s story and seeing what Claire moves onto next, because she rules. I’m expecting Bullseye to make an appearance soon, but I’m not too excited about Fisk being a prominent character again. I’m hoping that with Luke Cage starting up soon we’ll start seeing more crossover.
Drew: I dug this season a lot, but I think it suffers from two parallel stories that could have easily been their own season. The first half feels like the Punisher’s story, and it’s great. Castle is a menace and has a huge presence with the cast. Once Elektra comes along, though, and everything with The Hand and The Chaste is introduced, it feels like the essence of the season begins to fall apart. I think both arcs could have very well stood on their own, and one can definitely feel the tonal difference between the supporting characters of Elektra and Frank, and I think this causes thematic and tonal inconsistencies for the viewer. Aside from specific nitpicking, though, I’d say I enjoyed this as much as season one, and I am very excited for more in this setting; especially Iron Fist and The Defenders.
*Photos courtesy of Netflix/Marvel
Gabe Aikins
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